The Old Man
2002-08-31, 23:37
Author Message
converted_posts
Joined: 05 Aug 2002
Posts: 7
Posted: 05 Aug 2002 02:10 am Post subject: chalk question, ref-map making tips
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Topic: chalk qestion, ref-map making tips < Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Detoeni
Lieutenant
Group: Members
Posts: 31
Joined: June 2002
Posted: July 09 2002,11:50
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On the map making tips page it says that you should not use brushies with chalk on all sides or the map will leak.
Should this be ignored when making maps with chalk hull and lightmap?
All help appreciated
Dt.
--------------
whats the point of painting when u cant draw.
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grizzlybear
Field Marshall
Group: Members
Posts: 48
Joined: April 2002
Posted: July 09 2002,5:03
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by chalk are u meaning caulk??
i build all my brushes with caulk and only paste the veiwable sides
(its easier to spot a caulk face)
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omnix32
Commander
Group: Members
Posts: 255
Joined: June 2002
Posted: July 09 2002,5:03
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make your level and turn everything into detail brushes. detail brushes do not split leafnodes and compile faster. However thats not good because now every leafnod is 1024 default and can see everything. thats what the caulk hull is for to pervent leaks. I have an example to download here with the light grid texture. this map was made by planB I just converted it to RTCW.
mp_vis
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Detoeni
Lieutenant
Group: Members
Posts: 31
Joined: June 2002
Posted: July 09 2002,8:01
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Thanks for the reply folks
I have seen mp vis and in it the walls are all caulk(must learn to spell one of these days),the texture is aplied to the detail brush which is within the structal caulk. The structal brush has no texture and from reading the tips page I was worried that i was making a map with a few hundred leaks in it.
Dt
--------------
whats the point of painting when u cant draw.
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omnix32
Commander
Group: Members
Posts: 255
Joined: June 2002
Posted: July 10 2002,12:10
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well the example I put up does not leak. So, it must work. you do need to use q3map_2.2.0-1b or higher for it to work like its suppose to. The lightgrid.shader is also included in that download, so grab it and use it with the new q3map. so, by looking at your post you seem to understand the concept.
Caulk does not cause leaks. you can build a room with just caulk and it will not leak. I am not sure where you got the information, but I am sure it ment caulk will cause HOM which looks like a leak. So, having a caulk brush visible to the player will cause it to look like a leak, or make the brush invisible on the side of the caulk.
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grizzlybear
Field Marshall
Group: Members
Posts: 48
Joined: April 2002
Posted: July 10 2002,12:40
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the confusion arises from structural and detail brushes
nothing to do with caulk
yes all outer walls must be structural
structural is the default setting for brushes (i think)
or just put it in a big box
Q.would a large open map be better with detail brushes as sheds or buildings or would this bog it down with to much info ???????
must look at bridge mmmmm.............
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Detoeni
Lieutenant
Group: Members
Posts: 31
Joined: June 2002
Posted: July 10 2002,01:35
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First off, I read about this on the mapping tips, link is on Surface news page under caulk is king.
grizzlybear I have been trying to get large open map to work well, if you have a very simpel consruction it can work. After a lot of trial and lots of maps in the bin, I have come to the concusion if you want a map to work well let Quake be Quake its what it does best. Treat all open areas as just big coridoors, dont make them to big if you want lots of detail. If you want to make big maps learn everything you can about vis, understanding this has made a big diffrence in the way my maps work.
One idear Iv been messing with though is to have walls with sky texture on them running floor to celing ( making a big map into lots of coridoors). they have to be very well hidden or as you move round the map buildings apear from no where.
Make lots of maps and learn about vis I found this the best way forward.
--------------
whats the point of painting when u cant draw.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
omnix32
Commander
Group: Members
Posts: 255
Joined: June 2002
Posted: July 10 2002,02:06
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Grizzly bear. BIG OPEN MAPS
something like a wagon or car made of brushes you would make detail. a building you would make detail with caulk hull. the caulk would split leafnods but not slow vis down in the compile process. The reason is because I have seen so many rookies make all there outside buildings detail, which vis will pass not creating new leafs or portals. So, what happens is that the default vis grid looks like big squares across the map. So, the engine will see all the buildings behind all the other buildings because there is no leaf splits. everthing in the large leafnod will be drawn with all the things that are in the other leafnods that it sees. So, if you had the structural caulk hull on the buildings then it would split the leafs and cause the engine not to draw everthing else as the leaf the player is standing in is broken into smaller leafs and thus sees less.
What hint brushes do is act like structural brushes but are not solid or visible, it just splits the leaf like any other structural brush would. So, it has nothing to do with how thick you walls are or this and that. it has to do with what leafs see other leafs. thats what determins what the engine draws.
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krekits
Joined: 04 Aug 2002
Posts: 33
Posted: 09 Aug 2002 10:33 pm Post subject:
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@Detoeni -> The 'making your first room' tutorial here on surface has a few errors. I pointed this out to eyeronik, but he made it quite clear that he wasn't going to fix it. Maybe some of you can persuade him.
The caulk causing leaks is totally wrong, caulk does NOT cause leaks.
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Detoeni
Joined: 04 Aug 2002
Posts: 28
Location: U.K.
Posted: 10 Aug 2002 03:23 am Post subject:
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Good Day All,
Mmm. I’m still quite new to this mapping lark. There is a lot of information and knowledge that must be learnt before you can make maps well. I my self am still learning and have only scratch the surface of what has to be learned about the complexities of mapping.
Your problem with game speed is one area of mapping where I have a good understanding of what’s involved, so I offered what advise I could. I don’t know half the things about mapping that Eyeronik does, so I will always refer to his better judgment on what information is correct or not. There are so many situations in mapping where for one thing, the information given may correct, but in different circumstances the same may not be said. I don’t have a good enough understanding of this subject to be any judge of this, which is why I never followed up this topic.
The tutorial in question I believe is intended as an introduction into what can be created using the tools to hand and not a guide to the golden rules of mapping.
Dt
PS I think you might be right about the caulk.
converted_posts
Joined: 05 Aug 2002
Posts: 7
Posted: 05 Aug 2002 02:10 am Post subject: chalk question, ref-map making tips
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Topic: chalk qestion, ref-map making tips < Next Oldest | Next Newest >
Detoeni
Lieutenant
Group: Members
Posts: 31
Joined: June 2002
Posted: July 09 2002,11:50
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On the map making tips page it says that you should not use brushies with chalk on all sides or the map will leak.
Should this be ignored when making maps with chalk hull and lightmap?
All help appreciated
Dt.
--------------
whats the point of painting when u cant draw.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
grizzlybear
Field Marshall
Group: Members
Posts: 48
Joined: April 2002
Posted: July 09 2002,5:03
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
by chalk are u meaning caulk??
i build all my brushes with caulk and only paste the veiwable sides
(its easier to spot a caulk face)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
omnix32
Commander
Group: Members
Posts: 255
Joined: June 2002
Posted: July 09 2002,5:03
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
make your level and turn everything into detail brushes. detail brushes do not split leafnodes and compile faster. However thats not good because now every leafnod is 1024 default and can see everything. thats what the caulk hull is for to pervent leaks. I have an example to download here with the light grid texture. this map was made by planB I just converted it to RTCW.
mp_vis
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Detoeni
Lieutenant
Group: Members
Posts: 31
Joined: June 2002
Posted: July 09 2002,8:01
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the reply folks
I have seen mp vis and in it the walls are all caulk(must learn to spell one of these days),the texture is aplied to the detail brush which is within the structal caulk. The structal brush has no texture and from reading the tips page I was worried that i was making a map with a few hundred leaks in it.
Dt
--------------
whats the point of painting when u cant draw.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
omnix32
Commander
Group: Members
Posts: 255
Joined: June 2002
Posted: July 10 2002,12:10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
well the example I put up does not leak. So, it must work. you do need to use q3map_2.2.0-1b or higher for it to work like its suppose to. The lightgrid.shader is also included in that download, so grab it and use it with the new q3map. so, by looking at your post you seem to understand the concept.
Caulk does not cause leaks. you can build a room with just caulk and it will not leak. I am not sure where you got the information, but I am sure it ment caulk will cause HOM which looks like a leak. So, having a caulk brush visible to the player will cause it to look like a leak, or make the brush invisible on the side of the caulk.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
grizzlybear
Field Marshall
Group: Members
Posts: 48
Joined: April 2002
Posted: July 10 2002,12:40
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
the confusion arises from structural and detail brushes
nothing to do with caulk
yes all outer walls must be structural
structural is the default setting for brushes (i think)
or just put it in a big box
Q.would a large open map be better with detail brushes as sheds or buildings or would this bog it down with to much info ???????
must look at bridge mmmmm.............
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Detoeni
Lieutenant
Group: Members
Posts: 31
Joined: June 2002
Posted: July 10 2002,01:35
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First off, I read about this on the mapping tips, link is on Surface news page under caulk is king.
grizzlybear I have been trying to get large open map to work well, if you have a very simpel consruction it can work. After a lot of trial and lots of maps in the bin, I have come to the concusion if you want a map to work well let Quake be Quake its what it does best. Treat all open areas as just big coridoors, dont make them to big if you want lots of detail. If you want to make big maps learn everything you can about vis, understanding this has made a big diffrence in the way my maps work.
One idear Iv been messing with though is to have walls with sky texture on them running floor to celing ( making a big map into lots of coridoors). they have to be very well hidden or as you move round the map buildings apear from no where.
Make lots of maps and learn about vis I found this the best way forward.
--------------
whats the point of painting when u cant draw.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
omnix32
Commander
Group: Members
Posts: 255
Joined: June 2002
Posted: July 10 2002,02:06
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Grizzly bear. BIG OPEN MAPS
something like a wagon or car made of brushes you would make detail. a building you would make detail with caulk hull. the caulk would split leafnods but not slow vis down in the compile process. The reason is because I have seen so many rookies make all there outside buildings detail, which vis will pass not creating new leafs or portals. So, what happens is that the default vis grid looks like big squares across the map. So, the engine will see all the buildings behind all the other buildings because there is no leaf splits. everthing in the large leafnod will be drawn with all the things that are in the other leafnods that it sees. So, if you had the structural caulk hull on the buildings then it would split the leafs and cause the engine not to draw everthing else as the leaf the player is standing in is broken into smaller leafs and thus sees less.
What hint brushes do is act like structural brushes but are not solid or visible, it just splits the leaf like any other structural brush would. So, it has nothing to do with how thick you walls are or this and that. it has to do with what leafs see other leafs. thats what determins what the engine draws.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Back to top
krekits
Joined: 04 Aug 2002
Posts: 33
Posted: 09 Aug 2002 10:33 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
@Detoeni -> The 'making your first room' tutorial here on surface has a few errors. I pointed this out to eyeronik, but he made it quite clear that he wasn't going to fix it. Maybe some of you can persuade him.
The caulk causing leaks is totally wrong, caulk does NOT cause leaks.
Back to top
Detoeni
Joined: 04 Aug 2002
Posts: 28
Location: U.K.
Posted: 10 Aug 2002 03:23 am Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Good Day All,
Mmm. I’m still quite new to this mapping lark. There is a lot of information and knowledge that must be learnt before you can make maps well. I my self am still learning and have only scratch the surface of what has to be learned about the complexities of mapping.
Your problem with game speed is one area of mapping where I have a good understanding of what’s involved, so I offered what advise I could. I don’t know half the things about mapping that Eyeronik does, so I will always refer to his better judgment on what information is correct or not. There are so many situations in mapping where for one thing, the information given may correct, but in different circumstances the same may not be said. I don’t have a good enough understanding of this subject to be any judge of this, which is why I never followed up this topic.
The tutorial in question I believe is intended as an introduction into what can be created using the tools to hand and not a guide to the golden rules of mapping.
Dt
PS I think you might be right about the caulk.