Community?

[Midnight_Oil]

Its sad to see a good map hosting and review site go under. Interest in wolf and mapping seems to be waining a little. That seems odd with ET so close to release.

One thing that has surely hurt is the fractured community. There seems to have been a campain afoot to belittle this site and its forums. I would like to say that the service that eyeronik has provided has been invaluable to the community wether the "pros" admit it or not.

The growing list of tutorials is the best collection around and where else can you find a compleat working model list, and who else releases not 1 but 2 texture packs and a sound pack for all to use?

It can cirtainly be said that surface is newb friendly. That is not always the case elswhere. But the content is not strictly for beginners as some would say. We are truly lucky to have people like omnix32 showing us how to use new q3map fetures. Many peeps have contributed verious advanced tidbits for all to benifit from.

I have been a member of this forum for quite some time and have seen many peeps come and go. Some have quit mapping and others have moved on to other forums. Cirtinly that is their choice but to then procede to bash the place where they got their start is pretty low imho.

Our fearless leader can be sharp tongued at times, but acusations of greed and egomania are ridicules. Eyeronik has every right to be proud of this site. A lot of time and effort and no doubt a good deal of his own money has gone into it.

I would like to join in and express my thanks. Without this site I would have never got into mapping which is something I truely enjoy and has set the direction for my future career goals.

If this community is to remain viable, people must stop being so blindly loyal to a particular forum and share ideas and encoragement. Also newbs must be treated with respect because they are the ones who keep things going with new ideas and fresh energy. Many will decide mapping is not for them but some will stay with it and make great contributions.

I am sorry to rant on like this and I mean no offence to anyone. I am just tired of the bull@#%&. We are all trying to make better maps and share them with friends because we enjoy it. Shouldnt that be enough to bring everyone together?

[grizzlybear]

here here

very nice post midnight

[eyeronik]

Thanks for that midnight, i know you fight our cause! :) I know too i have picked up a bad reputation a lot of it my fault but people never forgive and forget on the net ive found so i cant loose that tag.

i really cant remember doing anything that bad to the community to be honest to be hated as much as i feel i am, a handful of posts in the pwl forums and a couple in the tramdesign ones, i do know once or twice i said to rummie some bad things in the pwl ones, which i didnt mean but rummie has never forgiven me for those things, it was ages ago before i even did surface i think, i said he wasnt as good a mapper as everyone thought etc. unfair of me to say, but well nothing i can do about it now. i guess i shouldnt of said we had new forums in other forums, bad idea, but id of thought news sites with mapping sections would of been a little more kinda rather than flaming me for it like rtcw moderator did with his ridiclous accusations.

Anyway it doesnt matter what i do now, a lot of people hate me, rummie has a good reason to, i was nasty to him, ill send him an apolygy by mail, although i think i already did before, but ill send it again. But other than rummie i dont remember upsetting anyone else, maybe nib with a map review, which i later changed and he linked this site, so many he dont hate me, but i dunno. I never asked to be hated you know :) ill do an apology on main site, dunno quite what ive done to everyone else really but oh well.

thanks for support midnight anyway, and u grizzer, i seen u sticking up for me in rtcw forums or someplace, so thanks, give your pink dogs a biscuit from me;)


also grizzer, you know your sig, if you do this code instead:

[***url]http://hometown.aol.co.uk/pinkdog55[***/url

WITHOUT THE ***, then it will be a link people can click like so:

http://hometown.aol.co.uk/pinkdog55

Its vb code, its on this page:

http://dynamic4.gamespy.com/%7Esurface/misc.php?action=bbcode

[nib]

Hmm..I think this warrants a response. Was going to email you directly after reading your news post but then when I saw this I figured I'd go ahead and post publicly just to clear the air. I'm going to be very blunt and honest here so you can see where I'm coming from. If it comes off harsh, it is because I'm trying to be very clear and not beat around the bush.

First, I don't "hate" you. That's a strong word and a word I don't use lightly.

Second, what I think about you has never been due to the review you did of bunker, never. It has nothing to do with any critique I've ever gotten about any of my work.

My only problem with you is that you are rather rude and become amazingly defensive when people criticize anything you do, which I find funny considering that you are quick to criticize others.

Here's how I evolved to that thinking. As an example, think back to when you posted news about your new site design. A couple people posted that they didn't like it for whatever reason. You then blasted them and got really defensive. Link (http://www.forumplanet.com/planetwolfenstein/topic.asp?fid=3206&tid=758608&p=1#7203433)


Then, jump to the quake3world forums. Ydnar posts news about a new ALPHA version of q3map (alpha means it is very rough code and not complete, and can be EXPECTED to have bugs) and you jump in the thread, slam ydnar, bad mouth his work on q3map, then proceed to say that all of his supporters are "licking his ass". I found that amazingly rude, disrespectful and in very, very poor taste. I have plenty of frustrations with q3map myself (just spent several days on a lightgrid problem that turned out to be a bug in q3map), but I would *never* go to where ydnar hangs out and bash him. That's just plain wrong. Just like I'd never come here and start bashing you. Link (http://www.quake3world.com/ubb/Forum6/HTML/022898.html?)

Then, after your 3rd forum revamp, you jump around to multiple other level editing forums to post "news" of your "new" site under various names. I thought that was in poor taste as well. I'd never think to come here and start spamming my site. ( could post the links if need be)

Now, you say that people are judging you on "2 or 3" posts, well, quite frankly, what else are we supposed to judge you on? Does the fact that you have a tutorial site negate what you say? Does the fact that you help the community give you license to be a jerk to everyone else? I say no.

All those events have formed my opinion of you. If you've come to some sort of realization that you've come off harsh in the past and plan on stopping that, then great. My opinion of you will evolve as you do. I don't have anything against you personally, I just found some of these events to be in rather poor taste. I'm not sure how you came to the conclusion that I "hate" you, I don't. I don't think I've ever publicly bad-mouthed you, if I have, it was a lapse of judgement on my part and I appologize for that.

In summary, your site is a valuable resource to the community and a site I send people too when appropriate. There is no reason that we can't all just get along. The only thing that needs to happen, in my opinion, is that you need to lighten your tone when dealing with folks outside your forums. From what I've seen here (I do occassionally lurk here) you're very helpful and curtious in your own forums, I'm not sure why you just don't carry that attitude out to other sites in the community.

So anyway, I just wanted to give you my point of view so there would be no confusion on anyone's part. If you think my opinion is wrong and I'm just being a jerk, that's cool. Or, if you see my point and you're planning on being a bit more careful when posting in the community, that's cool too. I don't hold grudges over stuff like this so I'm willing to let it all be water under the bridge.

[eyeronik]

yes your right ive done some stupid forum posts, i only meant i could only remember 2 or 3 posts and no i dont take critisium to well, although it depends on the situation, it was extremely difficult to make that postnuke site it took a long time to make and a lot of late nights and a lot of setting up databases, installing modules and configuring, it was a lot harder than i thought and took me so long to do, and the first comments i hear are: "What a lame site" so i wasnt too pleased about that so i got angry about it, i shouldnt of replied like that or at all maybe and if i could go back i wouldnt of said anything like the same things, i did actually change the theme from the bright blue a few people didnt like to silver.

And yes it was also really stupid about ydnar, i just couldnt get over why he never posted on his own website when he released q3map and why he always overwritten the old version, he doesnt do that anymore actually. But yes another stupid collection of posts, dunno what i was thinking, sort of thing say your having a conversation you say sorry i didnt mean that at the end, i dunno, really stupid.

So yes nib your right, they are the sort of posts i was meaning i was sorry about, completely stupid, oh and posting in other forums saying we had a new one, i honestly just didnt realise how inappropriate that was, i just didnt stop to think about that, so again pretty daft, if i could take back all these daft posts i did believe me i would.

Anyway i wont be doing any more stupid posts anyplace hopefully, bound to slip up sometime, but ill try my best and i should be able to manage it :)

oh and thanks for takin the time to reply and clear stuff up nib